Joe Rogan Experience #2419 - John Lisle

Summary

In this episode, historian John Lisle discusses the intricacies of the CIA's involvement in mind control programs, focusing on the infamous MKULTRA project. He shares insights from his books, highlighting the ethical dilemmas and consequences of governmental secrecy. This conversation sheds light on the dark history of intelligence operations in the U.S.

Key takeaways

• 1John Lisle: Historian with a Ph.D. from the University of Texas, focusing on the history of science.
• 2MKULTRA: A CIA mind control program notorious for its unethical experiments on unwitting subjects.
• 3'The Dirty Tricks Department': One of Lisle's books detailing the clandestine activities of the intelligence community.
• 4'Project Mind Control: Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA, and the Tragedy of MKULTRA': A comprehensive look at Sidney Gottlieb's role in CIA operations.

Glossary terms

Source

Transcript excerpt

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day. John, what's happening, man? Not much. It's very nice to meet you. You, too. Thanks for having me. Um, uh, I know you're in the middle of a project. You're doing a project with David Chase, right? That it's about MK Ultra and Yes. He has gotten the rights to this to this book, you know, this book Project Mind Control, and he's Yeah. interested in adapting it into a series. Well, I am endlessly fascinated with the subject. So, as soon as I heard about it, and they said the series is coming, but you could talk to the guy who wrote the book now. I'm like, let's go. So, here we go. Project Mind Control, Sydney, Sydney Gotautleb, the CIA, and the tragedy of MK Ultra, which really is a tragedy. Um, you know, I uh really got I mean, I knew about it, but I really didn't get completely obsessed with it until Chaos, Tom O'Neal's book. Have you read that? Oh, yeah. And uh when you realize what the MK Ultra program involved and how long it ran and how insane it is and it essentially had no oversight and these people were just running these wild mine experiments on American citizens and nobody went to jail for it. Yeah, that that's part of the crazy thing. One of the things I I really try to focus on in the book, especially the second half in the of the book, are the consequences of MK Ultra in society, but also just what happened to these people afterwards. ...

Excerpt from The Joe Rogan Experience, Nov 27, 2025. Rights remain with the original creators. Hear the full episode at the source.